Curse

Mimi Miyagi · Jul 14, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

From my perspective on farming, nerfs, and the GW economy...

There are a few absolutes that need to be established first.

1: There are no Godly items in GW
2: The GW economy is completely imbalanced, due to rampant inflation over items that are selling for far more than they are worth.
3: Everyone's definition of "poor" is a widely disparate opinion.
4: The vast majority seem to forget how long this game is going to be around until the next expansion pack.
5: Everyone's idea of what is "fun" is different.

IMO...

Things need to slow way down. WAAAAYYYY down. Is this the product of the "me" generation, where instant gratification is the only way anyone is happy? If you can't buy the most expensive armor or item in the game within one week of installing the game, are you going to complain loudly until you can?

How many Pindleskin or Throne runs did people make until they managed to get that uber rare item to drop, that was actually worth something in D2? Hundreds? Thousands? How much time did you spend crafting and gathering materials to make your MF 500+?

I constantly compare GW to D2, simply because the comparisons are too numerous to ignore. People still play D2, even after all of the duping, the exploits, the cheating, the cookie cutter builds, the twinking a character to the Throne Room in a couple of hours...why? Because of the rare chance to get that Godly item in D2 that is actually worth something.

But GW doesn't have those "Godly" items to quest after. No Runed Cruel Colossus Blades. No 1400HP armor. No SOJs, No Burizas with 100% piercing damage.

When people can sell an item that gives you 30 more HPs, something is terribly wrong - especially when a similar item that gives you 20-25HPs is regarded as worthless. You can buy a superior rune of vigor that gives you more HPs than that axe haft of Fortitude for half the price.

So...who is to blame for all of this? The people with more money than common sense.

I know of two people that have guild halls they BOUGHT, and they are the only people in their guilds. That, my friends, is the purest indication, at least to me, that the economy is run by fools.

And that brings me to farming. Again, this is just from my perspective.

I farm on occasion, but not to make money. I've never sold an item to another player. I've got a few Obsidian Shards sitting in my storage, but I'm not making run after run to collect them. If I get one while doing a run in the UW/FoW, then cool, if not, I don't stress out over it.

I didn't blow what cash I had on 15K armor. I bought the 1.5K armor and put on some yellow dye to make it look a bit better, but that's the extent of it. Total cost, less than 10-12K. The 15K armor doesn't make me a better player, so why should I care?

I've never bought anything from another player. I've never had a burning desire to upgrade my hammer's modifiers from +4 to armor to +5 - especially at the prices people ask for. I have a chaos axe, but it just sits there gathering dust in my storage for a rainy day, the hammer I have is better anyway. I don't buy black dyes. If I want to make my monk's tatoos look different, I'll use red, or purple, or whatever. The color of the dye doesn't affect my armor rating, or give me any bonuses, so it's just a waste of money.

The most money I've ever had in my accounts was 37K, I think. With the cash I've had I've used it to purchase runes from the rune trader to switch out builds for PVP when I haven't unlocked a rune, equipping my 4 different characters with droknar's forge armor, or other expenses. Just what else do I need to successully play this game, in either PVE or PVP? Nothing, from my POV.

Meanwhile, guildmates of mine dye their armor all black, buy 15K armor willy nilly, and worry when their cash supplies drop below 50K. They spend 100K for a stupid staff wrapping for fortitude, and don't care if they get ripped off.

Both are fine, if the way you play makes you happy - but understand that there are many different avenues to persue, and with a game like this, you shouldn't be getting the UW armor a month into the game, especially when you'll be waiting for a year for the expansion pack. In other words, recognize the fact that in order for this game to have longevity, anet needs to slow things down. It may be painful in the short term - after all, there is a huge gulf between the uber rich and the normal folk like me, but it's a long term adjustment to make the game more satisfying.

prodigy ming · Jul 14, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Does Anet intend people NOT to wear 15k armor? how the hell is anyone ever suppose to get that amount of money without farming? i played thru the game, without farming at all, done every quest and i only have around 15k in total. thats only enough for one piece of the armor excluding the cost of the rare materials that cost alot more than the armor and are hard to drop.

enzymepopper · Jul 14, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Yah, slow things down. U gotta force players to track for hours just to get from one town to the next like in other Online RPGS. And have those quests where a NPC send to to see another NPC that's an hour's track away, then that NPC will send you to meet another NPC that's another hour's track away, then be send back to the original NPC. Oh, and u gotta include that killing mobs for at least 3 days straight to earn enough Exp to achieve a level up. Oh, don't forget those quests where you must collect between 1000-3000 quest item drops and bring it back to the NPC for a reward of 500 Exp and 100G.

Stigmata Arta · Jul 14, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

This nerfing is seriously putting me off the game. There doesnt seem much point in playing PvE if you gotta play for ages just to get a little bit of money. I could handle a few nerf's but seriously, they have taken it WAY to far now.

Mimi Miyagi · Jul 14, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzymepopper

Yah, slow things down. U gotta force players to track for hours just to get from one town to the next like in other Online RPGS. And have those quests where a NPC send to to see another NPC that's an hour's track away, then that NPC will send you to meet another NPC that's another hour's track away, then be send back to the original NPC. Oh, and u gotta include that killing mobs for at least 3 days straight to earn enough Exp to achieve a level up. Oh, don't forget those quests where you must collect between 1000-3000 quest item drops and bring it back to the NPC for a reward of 500 Exp and 100G.

Yet millions of people do it in other games. I'm not saying GW needs to turn into that, but otoh, it shouldn't give you everything you want in a week. It's called long term enjoyment, and helps a game maintain a following, not just giving you everything with no effort or time investment at all.

provoko · Jul 14, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

But GW doesn't have those "Godly" items to quest after. No Runed Cruel Colossus Blades. No 1400HP armor. No SOJs, No Burizas with 100% piercing damage.

When people can sell an item that gives you 30 more HPs, something is terribly wrong - especially when a similar item that gives you 20-25HPs is regarded as worthless. You can buy a superior rune of vigor that gives you more HPs than that axe haft of Fortitude for half the price.

Thats godly. The 5hp extra you get from a perfect fortitude is equivielnt to a perfect ehteral skulders, haha, except on a extremly smaller scale. But it really doesn't matter. If anyone thinks they need that 1 extra magic point upgrade for their staff or that 1-2% for their weapon, you're just wasting your time.

rwt2006 · Jul 14, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

NERF: a squishy wannabe piece of sports equipment

oh and anyway farming could be considered an exploit, think of it this way now rare things are RARE not just everyone gets them for sitting there killing things over and over and over. The point is for those to be hard to find. thats why they are RARE anyway quit crying and deal with it u all whine way to much its just a game. and if it is more than just a game for you then get a life because you need one

Wrane Latrobe · Jul 14, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Please compare the following agruments:

The Amount of faction it takes to unlock a skill/rune/upgrade takes too long and is a grind. I don't want to grind. Anet Fix the grind

The amount of time it takes to get the gold for the Armor/Weapon I want takes too long and is a grind. I don't want to grind. Anet fix the grind.

What people are looking for is a way to "finish" the game using their arbitary completion criteria. That critria is typically something like fissure armor, 1000K in storage, opening all runes and skills.

The reason I keep playing the game is the enjoyment I get from playing the game with guildmates and seeing us become better players, in regards to skill selction, implentaion of stragey, and teamwork.

Kaylynn Of Ascalon · Jul 14, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

i have to agree. as a PvE player only (and a poor one at that) getting gold and weapons is hard. I never really farm but i have a couple places where I'll do a pass or two to get sum quick exp, gold or wepons. I never get anything decent these days. What thjey have to understand is as a PvE player I need to be rewarded for my efforts. I mean there really isn't much to do in the game that I haven't already done. How am i to get enough cash for my 75k armor?? its gonna take me forever to save it up.

they should un nerf or stop nerfing the areas. if its bots there after then find another way to defeat them.

MSecorsky · Jul 14, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylynn Of Ascalon

How am i to get enough cash for my 75k armor?? its gonna take me forever to save it up.

Who really cares? For a 10th of the cost you can get armor with identical stats, so if you want to create a Diabloian economy just so you can look pretty... well, apologies if I find it difficult to develop any sympathy to your plight. Farming may be "fun" to some, but it screws things over for others. It's great that ANet is taking steps to combat it.

Ba Ne · Jul 14, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Who really cares?

That's a pretty dumb question and argument in general isn't it? Obviously a lot of people care or there wouldn't be so much discussion regarding the economy, nerfs, drops, etc.

MSecorsky · Jul 14, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

That's a pretty dumb question and argument in general isn't it? Obviously a lot of people care or there wouldn't be so much discussion regarding the economy, nerfs, drops, etc.

Point dodged.

Why should those of us that don't like what farming does to the economy really care that someone wants to farm so they can look pretty? Better to keep things controlled than to succumb to the egos and vanities of the vocal.

Alderman Sweet · Jul 14, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I, too, enjoy just playing the game, but if people keep hearing about spiffy boutique armor and plats spilling out of storage boxes and players who dump black dye on their Vicious Raccoon Shields of Ni, they're eventually going to want some of that. It's part of the game. If they have to work ten times harder to get it than some guy who sits around yawning and complaining about how the game is a bore because he doesn't have anything interesting to buy with his boxcar of plats, then they're going to wonder what's going on. Human nature and all that.

MSecorsky · Jul 14, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

True, true. It would almost be worth it for ANet to wipe everything clean and start fresh at the nerfed levels things are now. Would put one helluva dent in eBay sales to!

Kaylynn Of Ascalon · Jul 14, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Who really cares? For a 10th of the cost you can get armor with identical stats, so if you want to create a Diabloian economy just so you can look pretty... well, apologies if I find it difficult to develop any sympathy to your plight. Farming may be "fun" to some, but it screws things over for others. It's great that ANet is taking steps to combat it.

well for one, I care. thats all the matters to me. I'm not a farmer. I do drake runs, (I think I have maybe done the run 3 times this past month.) if thats farming then im guilty. I don't need that 75k armor, but i don't really have anything to look forward to now and thats like the last big thing for me to do.
Wasn't looking for YOUR sympathy anyways. was just contributing to the thread.

Van the Warrior · Jul 14, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

ive done my contributing...and yeah nothing is nerfed

Divinitys Creature · Jul 14, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Ah good, I like Photeus' manner of post, so I'll respond to it.

Being that I am the author of this thread, I'd say that I know why I made it 'eh? I created this thread because working towards my last few high-end goals I see is now near impossible for me. If I had to do 60 runs of Altheas Ashes (assuming that's killing everything along the way) that takes roughly 20 minutes, that's about 20 hours of the same run just to get the amount I need for a superior vigor, and that's only half of what the 60k armor is (not including materials), and the fissure armor is about 6 times that much if not more. As much as I'd love to spend 500 hours doing Althea's Ashes in order to get the last sets of 15k/superior vigor/weapon upgrades/fissure armor I'd have to say that that's....highly dissapointing. And it's not so much it's more just that...I haven't spent 500 hours in game TOTAL as of yet. I shouldn't have over double my current time in game, which has all been spent mastering my characters, ascending my characters, testing builds, etc...just to achieve these end-game goals to make it last longer for me 'eh?

And I know they're trying to make it a grind for people to be super rich, I don't want to be "super rich" compared to everyone else. I'll just tell you the main thing that pisses me off right now.

Right now a droknar rusher can make 20k in roughly 30 minutes rushing a full group to dorknar for 3-5k each which are the prices now. A couple of those runs and you've got your superior vigor.

I should not be bought out by droknar rushers in every aspect of the game, which is what it's at right now. Hell I could be rich too if I wanted to use my last valued slot on a W/Mo and rush people to droknars every day and make at least 50k...every single day. That's what some rushers are able to do now, and so long as people can make THAT sort of money so easily by doing something so (in my opinion wrong) it just tweaks me when I, who've completed the game and nearly exhausted every bit of it...when I'm still without a way to make good money, but some warrior's making constant gold for running from town to town.

They should at least make drops able to compete with that sort of thing.

And on the last bit of your statement: I'm not a rich man, Day of Defeat has been my primary game for years now, many many years at that. All of the Half-Life mods I've exhausted which is why I moved to this game, I've beaten Doom 3 8 times with different mods, Half-Life 2's also been beaten multiple times with different mods, NFSU has gone and glitched 'cause I've messed with all the models and skins so much

, and...well that's about all the games I have. I can't spend anymore money on games right now, going to buy a new video card soon as Nvidia/ATI releases their 512MB cards and then I'll problably hit up with the Doom 3 expansion/Battlefield 2, etc.

I am just getting burnt out on this I know, I KNOW. In 2 months I've played about 450 hours...I'm WAY burnt out on this game. So why do I spend so much time trying to put my opinions out there in these forums you ask? Because I love the idea the game represents, and I'd like to see it become as good as it can be, not just for me, but for all the players out there who may have a similar mind set. Not a whole lot else for me to do, been studyin' up on photoshop/computer arts recently...friends? You make it sound as if I speak with anyone other than my family or those here. I live in Iowa, buddy, as much as I enjoy listening to people talk about their corn I've got better things to do.

I...need...a drink. Really badly.

On another note...yeah I want my farming spots back dangit.

EDIT:

Oh, oh, after reading the post above this I need to say something else.

After having gotten this far in the game, I'm so burnt out I'm willing to try ANYTHING for some more motivation. Even...dare I say...UAX. By this point...I've tried and earned all the ones I want anyway, give me SOMETHING to do...please? This gigantic nerf to what I had left of PvE has made me turn to even believing in UAX...and anyone who knows ANYTHING about my past posts knows that before this I made every effort to post AGAINST UAX. Christ...give us whatever, I just need to have more fun with this game, it has so much potential that's not being utilized as of yet.

I hope something comes around to make the game more fun to you.

I suppose there could be rewards for completely clearing explorable areas, that would add a lot of play time. Next thing is they could add puzzles that have like pieces randomly scattered through the whole of Tyria and you pice them together for some uber LOOKING weapon. Collector versions of the fissure armor but require like a huge amount of Rotscale eyelashes or something that you have to get from majesty's rest. That might be fun.

To the people that say they need farming to BUY materials for fissure armor. Well, I thought the whole point of PvE is role playing and collecting stuff and earning things. If you had a good group of players, you could pay your 125 gp, go in to UW and clear it out trying to get some ectos. Maybe the nerfing has made this too difficult, I dunno. I would think that buying the materials would be the least efficient way.

Rulke · Jul 14, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I just did a little test, to determine to what extent, if any, GW had been nerfed.

IIRC, before this wednesday's updates, every monster would drop something, not neccessarily good, but something, regardless.

I warp from thunderhead keep to serenity temple, to prevent whatever code it is that disadvantages farmers from coming into place.

I go out and agro a group of stone elementals. 8 of them. Got 3 drops.

It is not good to have a game with a less than 50% drop rate.
How will the casual gamers get anything?

I admit that this is a small sample, but it is still bad that anything could drop nothing. I killed all these things on my own, without henches, so that did not come into it.

I will therefore conclude that the drop rate EVERYWHERE has been nerfed substantially (honestly, who could farm there? You would get what, 100g an hour?) to the point where faction is the only way that anyone stands a chance of getting anything good for pvp chars, and it will become nigh on impossible for any new players to get anything.

I'm currently training my warrior to do Droknar's Runs, as there is no other way I'm going to make any money here.

EDIT: after more exhaustive testing, the average is about 10% of the monsters I kill not dropping anything. This is much better, but it should really be 0, IMO.

Van the Warrior · Jul 14, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

you people are dumb nothing was nerfed you are all paranoid and jumping on the omg they nerfed my farming spot bandwagon i bet 10 plat all of you get 1 stupid gold drop when u go back to farming and tomorrow will forget about this post NOTHING WAS NERFED

Alderman Sweet · Jul 14, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

you people are dumb nothing was nerfed you are all paranoid and jumping on the omg they nerfed my farming spot bandwagon i bet 10 plat all of you get 1 stupid gold drop when u go back to farming and tomorrow will forget about this post NOTHING WAS NERFED

All righty. Thanks for clearing that up, Van.